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 Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?

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Thrice



Posts : 212
Join date : 2010-02-07

PostSubject: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:05 pm

As per Dinin's request i raise the question is it fair for staff to have clan alts? It not particularly the question I wanted to ask because its more to do with double logging for periods of time with a staff and their clan fighter and if that should be allowed.

To clarify I do not have a complaint against Twinsix. He did nothing wrong. My concern is that there is a potential for it to happen. I did not suggest Twinsix used /who to track any1 i just suggested that it in uncertain knowing that there is essentially a clan member on that knows your location. Because of the potential for it to happen it effects the player.

For this reason i asked the question.

I believe I was quite civil in explaining my matter. Perhaps this post will be allowed?
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Andy



Posts : 590
Join date : 2009-09-08
Age : 28

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:41 am

What if i was on my clan alt and suspected someone of leading/dual logging?

If I could double log I would instantly get my staffer alt on before logging off my clan alt (although I would send him to temple/CH). 15 mins also seems a reasonable time for dealing with a rule breaking issue, although many players like to drag this 15mins out into 30+
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Thrice



Posts : 212
Join date : 2010-02-07

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:33 am

A valid point Andy. This was the intention of my post, to draw attention to the issue and make constructive criticism.

Perhaps if you suspected a player of leading/ double logging you could log off your clan member and on with you staffer. Would that be a possibility?
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Rush



Posts : 154
Join date : 2012-07-19

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:36 pm

Logging off of a clan alt would alert the offender if they know the staffers alts. It's sad enough this is even a discussion. Staff are suppose to be the people we trust. Unfortunately there is some corruption and there has been for some time. The main problem is that staff always side with staff even if a player may have a valid point. If I were to witness some sort of corruption from a staff member I wouldn't even bother to report it because I don't feel like anything would get done. Staff always have some way to cover themselves.

Just make it a rule. If a staff double logs they are not to kill any clan members until 30 mins have passed since their staff alt has logged off. Unless it is a situation where Clan A and Clan B are fighting. Staff is in Clan A and member from Clan A calls him for help.
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Andy



Posts : 590
Join date : 2009-09-08
Age : 28

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:06 pm

Rush wrote:
Logging off of a clan alt would alert the offender if they know the staffers alts.
This gives people vital seconds to lag off/recall and "pretend" to be innocent...
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Urdadi

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Posts : 294
Join date : 2009-09-09
Location : yomama's

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:43 pm

If staff were not allowed in clans we would lose a huge chunk of the clan members, or half the staff. That is not acceptable. I trust they do not share privileged information or double log staff/clan alts.
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Dinin



Posts : 821
Join date : 2009-09-08
Age : 25
Location : London, Ontario, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:14 am

In the almost 6 years ive played here ive never seen this "issue" come up before. Do staff have privledged info? Yes. Do some staff abuse their power/information? Yes. Are they the vast minority? Yes.

We take staff abuse claims seriously and commit alot of time going through logs to confirm/deny it. Do we side with staff over players if no evidence is found? Yes. If found to be abusing though admin are demoted/removed from staff and if serious they may be banned. There are several ex admin on the ban list i cant name for obvious reasons.

I have a clan alt who is a clan founder. Do I engage in clan fights often? No. Have i used my staffer/imp alt to track clannies to kill them? Not once. Have I used any info or privledge not avaiable to a normal player? Yes, when considering who to accept into my clan without even checking i know their alts and their history just because i am and always have been constantly checking alts while on my staff alts for obvious reasons. I also used build mode to carpet near a door of my ch (after seeing walls and carpet near doors in other chs and paying the plat it would have cost to Ody).

Do i abuse my knowledge by knowing off the top of my head player x has a history of griefing players however they can or that they have a alt in another clan and deny them entry into my clan? Is it reasonable to expect me to pretend I dont know and accept them?

Why is this only an issue now? We as a team have a very good reputation as far as power abuse goes as well as looking into claims and acting accordingly if found to be legitimate. I would hope players have enough faith in the staff team for this to not be an issue.


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flipper

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Posts : 1077
Join date : 2009-10-15
Age : 47
Location : Oregon, US

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:25 am

I like the idea of staff not being able to log on to a clan alt for a period of time. I see nothing wrong with that.
With trade working in game I also no longer see a need for dual logging either.

This would help clean up any abuse by staff or by players, perceived or otherwise.
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Thrice



Posts : 212
Join date : 2010-02-07

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:30 am

Most people appear to be missing the point here. Its not whether it has been done or not. The fact is that there is nothing in place for something to happen and as such it is uneasy for players who are currently active.

The mere presents of an admin double logging is the issue. Having a clan member on who can see where you are makes the player feel unsafe. consequently this can affect how the player engages in his play. As per my example earlier where i was camping at forest chest. I then left forest because i was aware that a clan member knew potentially where i was through his staffer double logged at the time.

My request is just a rule or undertaking by admin that they not attack someone within a period after having double logged both chars. Its the reassurance I'm looking for that gives the player comfort in knowing there not going to be pursued by someone who has recently viewed where they are.

It appears Amanar doesn't get it from his last post so hopefully this clears things up. Feel free to take a screenshot Amanar if it helps you Smile
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Andy



Posts : 590
Join date : 2009-09-08
Age : 28

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:22 am

fix for rules

No dual logging, full stop

This now gives you time to move your char when you suspect a staffer of checking /w to find you and kill you on their clan alt
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Iktomi

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Posts : 513
Join date : 2010-05-18
Age : 29
Location : Missouri

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:47 am

I have an honest question. Many people in clans that I have seen have alts in other clans as well. So my question is what makes you more nervous about staff having clan alts, people that have shown that they can usually be trusted, versus any player, with good or bad history, in multiple clans?
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Twinsix



Posts : 259
Join date : 2012-10-13
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:18 am

What happens when I do a transfer from staff alt to clan alt and I go do something on Pepsi and someone attacks me and I just by chance beat them, and they cry the blues that I attacked them? Do you expect administration to dig through the log every time this happens and see what happened? I don't know if you're familiar with the logs but they are quite a hassle to dig through. Eliminate dual logging and it solves so many problems.

I say we abolish this outrageous and outdated way of transfering items!
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Rsin



Posts : 4
Join date : 2009-09-08

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:25 pm

staff can /who all clans u can only /who urs so that's fine
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Rsin



Posts : 4
Join date : 2009-09-08

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:27 pm

o and that last post by u twin is dumb for u to say that cuz staff should know u gotta be in same place when u dual log so now ur admittin to more illegal stuff
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Yatana



Posts : 48
Join date : 2012-01-05

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:46 pm

Just thought I would point out that everyone on the staff is horrible at pvp, and because they are so bad they are scared or avoid pvp at all cost... if you are honestly scared of them spying on you and hunting you down thats just a little pathetic, man up and get ready for a fight if you must but i promise they arent coming.

As for the actual topic of this post I could care less if admin used the ability to /who to come hunt clan members. The more clan fights the better if you are scared of a fake death once in a while just quit clans rather than complaining about something that isnt even an issue
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Rush



Posts : 154
Join date : 2012-07-19

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:58 am

Yatana wrote:
Just thought I would point out that everyone on the staff is horrible at pvp, and because they are so bad they are scared or avoid pvp at all cost...
True lol.
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Odysseus

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Posts : 1330
Join date : 2009-08-22
Age : 32

PostSubject: Re: Is it fair for staff to have clan alts?   Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:28 am

I will not consider prohibiting Staff from being in a clan on their alts. Our staff have two fundamental rights that would be breached:

1) To be able to switch to a non staff character and experience the game as a normal player would,away from but ever mindful of their duties. We all need down time and my staff are not salaried or contracted for specific hours.

2) To be protected under the same Laws that protect and govern other players. Our staff cannot be maliciously targeted or treated differently just because they are staff. They are not the players 'punching bag' for all things wrong in the game, that responsibility is bore on the shoulders of the Gods and to a certain extent, their Imps.

Staff only have one alt with power, there are no commands they can gain access too whilst on a normal alt. I agree that staff  should not dual log with a staffed character if their clan character is also online. To avoid this staff can use /trade, ask for assistance off others, or can swap items between staff and non clan characters and then onto their clan characters. In this instance there is absolutely no reason to think of any other solution and there is minimal to zero chance of abuse.

THREAD CLOSED

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