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 Ideas for balancing the races.

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Oldhaus



Posts : 64
Join date : 2015-11-12

PostSubject: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:15 am

Feel free to add your own ideas into the topic, I'll start with mine Smile

I believe the Seyan'Du needs attention; they've been indirectly nerfed with the addition of DW, shield, wand and axe. These items have all made the other races stronger in someway. The new spell cap beyond 255 has also made it harder for the Seyans to keep up.

My suggestion is to focus on the Seyans biggest strength, their WV. By adding 4 - 10 Seyan shrines.

At the moment the maximum minimum rank to obtain all 24 shrines is colonel. It's extremely motivational when you have minimum rank requirements to touch these shrines, so how about add a few more with minimum ranks up to FDM or knight. For example, you could have a shrine on floor XX of tower, one in cohor, one in prison, one in castle quest, one in UW pents.

It would make it a lot more fun ranking a Seyan, it would give the Seyan some compensation to the indirect nerfs.

Thank you for reading my post.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:38 am

Oldhaus wrote:
Feel free to add your own ideas into the topic, I'll start with mine Smile

I believe the Seyan'Du needs attention; they've been indirectly nerfed with the addition of DW, shield, wand and axe. These items have all made the other races stronger in someway. The new spell cap beyond 255 has also made it harder for the Seyans to keep up.

My suggestion is to focus on the Seyans biggest strength, their WV. By adding 4 - 10 Seyan shrines.

At the moment the maximum minimum rank to obtain all 24 shrines is colonel. It's extremely motivational when you have minimum rank requirements to touch these shrines, so how about add a few more with minimum ranks up to FDM or knight. For example, you could have a shrine on floor XX of tower, one in cohor, one in prison, one in castle quest, one in UW pents.

It would make it a lot more fun ranking a Seyan, it would give the Seyan some compensation to the indirect nerfs.

Thank you for reading my post.

I feel seyan, with the removal of 255 cap, has gotten some pretty powerful increases.

300 mod bless is easy to get on seyan, which mods everything else.







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Limitless



Posts : 47
Join date : 2015-07-06
Age : 33

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:40 am

Takeaway spell penalty. Case solved.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:44 am

I haven't heard anyone really complain seyan is too weak, it's usually the opposite.

Seyan has some nice versatility still, which is what the class thrives on.

Being able to dispel, stun, curse, and kill stuff nice is quickly, and they can tank pretty well.

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Wind



Posts : 86
Join date : 2010-08-18
Age : 29
Location : Tokyo, Japan

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:45 am

Seyans are so weak now as you can see I'm always logged into my Earl Sorc instead of my Warlord Seyan.
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Oldhaus



Posts : 64
Join date : 2015-11-12

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:50 am

Motoko wrote:
Oldhaus wrote:
Feel free to add your own ideas into the topic, I'll start with mine Smile

I believe the Seyan'Du needs attention; they've been indirectly nerfed with the addition of DW, shield, wand and axe. These items have all made the other races stronger in someway. The new spell cap beyond 255 has also made it harder for the Seyans to keep up.

My suggestion is to focus on the Seyans biggest strength, their WV. By adding 4 - 10 Seyan shrines.

At the moment the maximum minimum rank to obtain all 24 shrines is colonel. It's extremely motivational when you have minimum rank requirements to touch these shrines, so how about add a few more with minimum ranks up to FDM or knight. For example, you could have a shrine on floor XX of tower, one in cohor, one in prison, one in castle quest, one in UW pents.

It would make it a lot more fun ranking a Seyan, it would give the Seyan some compensation to the indirect nerfs.

Thank you for reading my post.

I feel seyan, with the removal of 255 cap, has gotten some pretty powerful increases.

300 mod bless is easy to get on seyan, which mods everything else.








In general the removal of 255 cap has potentially given every race a powerful increase, it's just harder for Seyan to reach that over most races.
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Oldhaus



Posts : 64
Join date : 2015-11-12

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:53 am

Motoko wrote:
I haven't heard anyone really complain seyan is too weak, it's usually the opposite.

Seyan has some nice versatility still, which is what the class thrives on.

Being able to dispel, stun, curse, and kill stuff nice is quickly, and they can tank pretty well.


Every Seyan I've spoken has either openly said or agreed Seyan's are too weak now with the removal of 255 spell cap.

Whether it's the removal of the 255 spell cap or other reasons, the general Seyan community feel they're weaker than they use to be in comparison with other races.
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Oldhaus



Posts : 64
Join date : 2015-11-12

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:57 am

Limitless wrote:
Takeaway spell penalty. Case solved.

That's a good idea, I think that's definitely reasonable.
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Oldhaus



Posts : 64
Join date : 2015-11-12

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:27 am

Oldhaus wrote:
Motoko wrote:
I haven't heard anyone really complain seyan is too weak, it's usually the opposite.

Seyan has some nice versatility still, which is what the class thrives on.

Being able to dispel, stun, curse, and kill stuff nice is quickly, and they can tank pretty well.


"Seyan has some nice versatility still, which is what the class thrives on.

Being able to dispel, stun, curse, and kill stuff nice is quickly, and they can tank pretty well."

Yes that still doesn't offset the indirect nerfs, you just basically wrote a small description of what makes a Seyan a Seyan, without disputing the effects of the indirect nerfs.


Every Seyan I've spoken to has either openly said  or agreed Seyan's are too weak now with the removal of 255 spell cap.

Whether it's the removal of the 255 spell cap or other reasons, the general Seyan community feel they're weaker than they use to be in comparison with other races.
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:06 am

I think there is a general misunderstanding on what seyans are and what they should be.

If you believe seyans should be as powerful as an arch race in either melee or casting, you are mistaken. Seyans get the highest base wv in the game champ or not. That is a 40 point difference from memory (i need to check stats). They can also reach 260-270 stats on dpots which is where most races will be at this moment.

They can curse, curse2, stun, dispel and stealth. I do not see the disadvantage you are speaking of.

The cap removal only benefits people who use crafted/SS gear right now. The biggest stat boost comes from 300bless which a seyan can easily reach with SS gear. From memory you have a low rank seyan which really doesnt bloom until mid-late officer.

To be honest, any boost to seyan would make them even more powerful than they are.
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Wind



Posts : 86
Join date : 2010-08-18
Age : 29
Location : Tokyo, Japan

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:18 am

Asmodeus wrote:
I think there is a general misunderstanding on what seyans are and what they should be.

If you believe seyans should be as powerful as an arch race in either melee or casting, you are mistaken. Seyans get the highest base wv in the game champ or not. That is a 40 point difference from memory (i need to check stats). They can also reach 260-270 stats on dpots which is where most races will be at this moment.

They can curse, curse2, stun, dispel and stealth. I do not see the disadvantage you are speaking of.

The cap removal only benefits people who use crafted/SS gear right now. The biggest stat boost comes from 300bless which a seyan can easily reach with SS gear. From memory you have a low rank seyan which really doesnt bloom until mid-late officer.

To be honest, any boost to seyan would make them even more powerful than they are.

Seems like you have completely ignored my post as my seyan isnt anywhere near mid-late officer.
I'm saying it's too weak after trying to do Auto-Monster-Lotto on a seyan.
Auto-Lotto reflects other races's fighting status of 300 mods so you can pretty clearly see the balancing.
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:25 am

Not too many players can do the auto monster lotto of any given race. And the fact that you cant do one area does not say your class is imbalanced compared to others. Especially given the fact that seyans can pretty much solo the entire game whereas other classes cannot.
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Wind



Posts : 86
Join date : 2010-08-18
Age : 29
Location : Tokyo, Japan

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:31 am

Asmodeus wrote:
Not too many players can do the auto monster lotto of any given race. And the fact that you cant do one area does not say your class is imbalanced compared to others. Especially given the fact that seyans can pretty much solo the entire game whereas other classes cannot.

Nyandere clears it with ease, as a Necro.
Ayumi clears it with ease, as a Sorc.

Pretty sure it's imbalanced.

Asmodeus do you have a noble seyan or any other races other than your Knight Harakim?
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Lazywarrior



Posts : 180
Join date : 2015-07-25
Age : 20
Location : Somewhere with a bunch of nekos

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:49 am

Wind wrote:
Asmodeus wrote:
Not too many players can do the auto monster lotto of any given race. And the fact that you cant do one area does not say your class is imbalanced compared to others. Especially given the fact that seyans can pretty much solo the entire game whereas other classes cannot.

Nyandere clears it with ease, as a Necro.
Ayumi clears it with ease, as a Sorc.

Pretty sure it's imbalanced.

Asmodeus do you have a noble seyan or any other races other than your Knight Harakim?
Yea my necro can clear it with ease, as can he do everything in the game (except BS) with ease, they're pretty poorly balanced in general..

As for monster lotto, for the most part it puts my seyan against 3-4 people of similar or higher stats, I usually cant clear it without gpots/dpots which is what I assumed the intended difficulty for that area.


Only big issue I have with Seyan's balance is the fact ALL of their arch skills are absolute garbage. All of them. The only thing any of them are good for is penting or rd, nothing else. don't even know why they have the option for half their arch skills, as they aren't even used(they cost wayyyyy too much to use for the insignificant power their class gives)
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Wind



Posts : 86
Join date : 2010-08-18
Age : 29
Location : Tokyo, Japan

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:58 am

Lazywarrior wrote:
Wind wrote:
Asmodeus wrote:
Not too many players can do the auto monster lotto of any given race. And the fact that you cant do one area does not say your class is imbalanced compared to others. Especially given the fact that seyans can pretty much solo the entire game whereas other classes cannot.

Nyandere clears it with ease, as a Necro.
Ayumi clears it with ease, as a Sorc.

Pretty sure it's imbalanced.

Asmodeus do you have a noble seyan or any other races other than your Knight Harakim?
Yea my necro can clear it with ease, as can he do everything in the game (except BS) with ease, they're pretty poorly balanced in general..

As for monster lotto, for the most part it puts my seyan against 3-4 people of similar or higher stats, I usually cant clear it without gpots/dpots which is what I assumed the intended difficulty for that area.


Only big issue I have with Seyan's balance is the fact ALL of their arch skills are absolute garbage. All of them. The only thing any of them are good for is penting or rd, nothing else. don't even know why they have the option for half their arch skills, as they aren't even used(they cost wayyyyy too much to use for the insignificant power their class gives)

Wait.
I just used my blast 2 on the Flower Girl in Flower Farm earlier because she had way too much AV. I couldn't hurt her with 160wv.

Another area I think my seyan can't solo is the Champion Ice Garg in Ice Nest.
Ayumi solo'ed easily, and I think Necros/AHs should be able to too.

Just for reference, I also have a Knight AT(maxed out important stats) so I am here to talk about the balance of at least 3 races that I own. How about you? Asmodeus.
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Lazywarrior



Posts : 180
Join date : 2015-07-25
Age : 20
Location : Somewhere with a bunch of nekos

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:03 pm

Asmodeus wrote:
Not too many players can do the auto monster lotto of any given race. And the fact that you cant do one area does not say your class is imbalanced compared to others. Especially given the fact that seyans can pretty much solo the entire game whereas other classes cannot.

Dunno where you got that idea, my seyan can't do quite a few of areas where a hara and sorc can do 90% of the game extremely easily(mostly due to compulsion... but that's a different story for balance)  and necro can solo pretty much everything but shiva extremely easily..
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Limitless



Posts : 47
Join date : 2015-07-06
Age : 33

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:16 pm

Again, I say raise them to 0% spell penalty.

Sorcs reach 300 resist easy, and with curse/curse2/stun no one wants the fight them.

AH have a bonus so that puts them near Sorcs with resist gear.

Temps reach 300 axe/2h mod easily and with harden they gain an edge.

Warriors have a 10% boost and with the skull cap raise pulls them even farther from seyans.

Necro is its own class and I'm sure will be nerfed soon to fix it being so overpowered.

Seyans have the same spell penalty and they where made to be the ancient race of astonia. Why do they still suffer from a simple fix when all other caster and Melee races have higher spell bonus?

One simple fix (which shouldn't be an issue to casters because they will ALWAYS have higher spell bonus) is to boost Seyans to 0%. If the gods and admin see that it does affect the race with such a drastic change (not sure why it would) then they can take it back down. Easier fix then what has to be done with necromancer class imo.

Think on it.
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Diablo



Posts : 22
Join date : 2014-10-13
Age : 23
Location : USA

PostSubject: I concur completely   Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:28 pm

Seyans are a race that were meant to be all around decent in various areas. I've owned a High noble seyan and can say that i wouldn't want one right now because of unbalanced areas.

The 300 cap raise was huge. Changing the base of the game in general is huge. Spell barriers, dispells, and 300 BASE on monsters makes it even more insane.

•Seyans need a slight bump to keep up with the balnce in the game.
•Sorcs, and AH's can do just about anything right now.
•AT's can do a lot because of their godly weapon skill and AV levels. Warriors are having a rough time until Noble then things smoothen up a bit.
•Seyans are just left in the dust and struggle
•Necros... Nuff Said

My seconding of all the information stated on par to Oldhaus, Limitless, and Wind leads me to the conclusion that i agree without a doubt that we need a spell penalty removal to all Seyans to be able to become a decent or useful class in general. Please consider this as your general/active population can agree on it. Thanks for reading
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Lordlava

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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:07 pm

Agreed - Seyans are way overpowered.

Spell bonus on Seyans changed from 0.95 to 0.9
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Motoko



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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:13 pm

Also - Warrior spell bonus has been raised to 30%.

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Lordlava

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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:15 pm

Just in case you had not realised - the changes to Seyan and Warrior were just a jest - no change has been made.
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Supaguard



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Join date : 2012-08-05

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:22 pm

Interesting.  When are some meaningful changes with the players feedback in mind going to be done and not just "jests"?
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Motoko



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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:35 pm

Supaguard wrote:
Interesting.  When are some meaningful changes with the players feedback in mind going to be done and not just "jests"?

Plenty of meaningful changes were just made and more are in store.

All major changes we make we do as a staff, there is no sole person calling the shots.



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Lordlava

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PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:52 pm

Supaguard wrote:
Interesting. When are some meaningful changes with the players feedback in mind going to be done and not just "jests"?

It was not meant to be disrespectful.
It was just a feeble attempt at humour.

There is a lot going on in the development space, especially over the Christmas New Year break.

I am loading changes a couple of times a day at the moment (hence all the restarts - apologies to those affected).
Moto is working on his new area and also fixing a string of old and outstanding issues at the same time.

Some of these changes may please some players whilst other will be indifferent or object.
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Oldhaus



Posts : 64
Join date : 2015-11-12

PostSubject: Re: Ideas for balancing the races.   Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:43 am

Lordlava wrote:
Supaguard wrote:
Interesting.  When are some meaningful changes with the players feedback in mind going to be done and not just "jests"?

It was not meant to be disrespectful.
It was just a feeble attempt at humour.

There is a lot going on in the development space, especially over the Christmas New Year break.

I am loading changes a couple of times a day at the moment (hence all the restarts - apologies to those affected).
Moto is working on his new area and also fixing a string of old and outstanding issues at the same time.

Some of these changes may please some players whilst other will be indifferent or object.

I look forward to seeing these changes Very Happy exciting indeed. But the main concern that people are voicing within this post is that the Seyan has become weaker than it's former self in relation with the new changes indirectly buffing other races.

DW increased Warriors Damage, Axe gave Templars a passive RNG no cost stun. Shields further increase mods to Sorc and Haras. Hence I proposed the Seyan get a few more shrines.

Other people are concerned that these new spell cap has made it harder for the Seyan to reach 300 mod compared to other races that's don't suffer the same spell penalty. So suggestions have been made to remove the spell penalty.

Someone mentioned that the Seyan got useless Arch skills, and there should be new arch skills made; assuming ones tailored to suit Seyans.

I think these ideas are all plausible, I think my idea is pretty good because it focuses on the Seyans strongest single attribute; the high WV, and the addition of shrines also makes exploration more exciting past Colonel.

The spell penalty removal idea is not bad but it doesn't compensate for the indirect buffs the other races got from shield,DW,axe etc. And I agree with Moto that Seyans can still potentially reach 300mod with drugs and SS gear. Although it is a lot more harder for Seyans to reach the 300 mod compared to some other races.

The idea of new arch skills is pretty interesting, I certainly do think the Seyan has become weaker in skills compared to its former self before the introduction of new arch skills. Originally the Seyan only missed out on War Cry and Concentrate, there's certainly more than 2 they're missing now. This idea is worth thinking over as are the others.

This post deserves more than a Jest response, other players besides me have voiced their opinions passionately. I hope the voice of the mortal players over shadows the natural tendency to be conservative when it comes to balancing races.

Thank you.
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