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 Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)

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Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)
1. Yes
56%
 56% [ 9 ]
No.
44%
 44% [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 16
 

AuthorMessage
Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Fri May 27, 2016 6:31 am

1. Yes
2. No

provide feedback below, this is for clan pvp, no real deaths/loss of luck.

Poll has been reset.


Last edited by Motoko on Sat May 28, 2016 3:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Sat May 28, 2016 12:10 am

Motoko wrote:
1. Yes
2. No

provide feedback below.

When you say pvp do you mean purple with real death or a la guild pvp?

Answer is no because balance sucks and favors one tactic. No point if you are not a specific class with specific gear. 

Large scale is fun though but that died with original run of clans.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Sat May 28, 2016 3:51 am

Asmodeus wrote:
Motoko wrote:
1. Yes
2. No

provide feedback below.

When you say pvp do you mean purple with real death or a la guild pvp?

Answer is no because balance sucks and favors one tactic. No point if you are not a specific class with specific gear. 

Large scale is fun though but that died with original run of clans.

I mean clan pvp.

I will clarify and reset the poll.
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Sat May 28, 2016 6:52 am

Motoko wrote:
Asmodeus wrote:
Motoko wrote:
1. Yes
2. No

provide feedback below.

When you say pvp do you mean purple with real death or a la guild pvp?

Answer is no because balance sucks and favors one tactic. No point if you are not a specific class with specific gear. 

Large scale is fun though but that died with original run of clans.

I mean clan pvp.

I will clarify and reset the poll.

My answer remains now for a few very simple reasons related to balance. 

Stun and warcry are the two main issues for me. With the proper set up, WC will destroy any other player hands down especially if working as a group. While I don't mind all that much especially given that this is a relatively painful set up, I do mind that the game's mechanics revolves around who stuns first. 

In lower tier pvp, having access to dpots, ss sets and skua scrolls really breaks any kind of chance that lower ranked players will ever have. Not a massive issue given our population but can still be a problem going forward.

Classes are not optimized. Hara/Sorc have no DPS. You can argue GC but its a garbage skill. B2 hits for less than 15% on a high rank and poison is laughable. Spellcasters will always always always suck in terms of pvp dps because of how AV/Imm/Res works. 

Necros have no chance whatsoever to kill someone unless that someone is a total moron. 

Recall prevents death.

Death markers - I think the most significant impediment to PVP is the death indicator and death count. People don't want 200+ deaths on their description.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Sat May 28, 2016 7:04 am

Asmodeus wrote:
Motoko wrote:
Asmodeus wrote:
Motoko wrote:
1. Yes
2. No

provide feedback below.

When you say pvp do you mean purple with real death or a la guild pvp?

Answer is no because balance sucks and favors one tactic. No point if you are not a specific class with specific gear. 

Large scale is fun though but that died with original run of clans.

I mean clan pvp.

I will clarify and reset the poll.

My answer remains now for a few very simple reasons related to balance. 

Stun and warcry are the two main issues for me. With the proper set up, WC will destroy any other player hands down especially if working as a group. While I don't mind all that much especially given that this is a relatively painful set up, I do mind that the game's mechanics revolves around who stuns first. 

In lower tier pvp, having access to dpots, ss sets and skua scrolls really breaks any kind of chance that lower ranked players will ever have. Not a massive issue given our population but can still be a problem going forward.

Classes are not optimized. Hara/Sorc have no DPS. You can argue GC but its a garbage skill. B2 hits for less than 15% on a high rank and poison is laughable. Spellcasters will always always always suck in terms of pvp dps because of how AV/Imm/Res works. 

Necros have no chance whatsoever to kill someone unless that someone is a total moron. 

Recall prevents death.

Death markers - I think the most significant impediment to PVP is the death indicator and death count. People don't want 200+ deaths on their description.

The only things I really agree with are stun/warcry and necros not being able to kill anything due to recall.

Spellcasters are far better than melee at pvp, because of stun/curse. You even said stun is the key to pvp.... thus sorc/hara wins.  Just stun/poison and stun to death...A warrior would need a ton of SS gear to kill someone, temps are terrible solo, whereas a sorc/hara can stun/curse anything, without SS gear.

With average gear (1-2 SS and a gpot), sorc is easily the best class at pvp.

Who cares about death markers...

Would you like stun to have a 5% diminish duration?
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Sun May 29, 2016 6:48 am

Motoko wrote:
Asmodeus wrote:
Motoko wrote:
Asmodeus wrote:
Motoko wrote:
1. Yes
2. No

provide feedback below.

When you say pvp do you mean purple with real death or a la guild pvp?

Answer is no because balance sucks and favors one tactic. No point if you are not a specific class with specific gear. 

Large scale is fun though but that died with original run of clans.

I mean clan pvp.

I will clarify and reset the poll.

My answer remains now for a few very simple reasons related to balance. 

Stun and warcry are the two main issues for me. With the proper set up, WC will destroy any other player hands down especially if working as a group. While I don't mind all that much especially given that this is a relatively painful set up, I do mind that the game's mechanics revolves around who stuns first. 

In lower tier pvp, having access to dpots, ss sets and skua scrolls really breaks any kind of chance that lower ranked players will ever have. Not a massive issue given our population but can still be a problem going forward.

Classes are not optimized. Hara/Sorc have no DPS. You can argue GC but its a garbage skill. B2 hits for less than 15% on a high rank and poison is laughable. Spellcasters will always always always suck in terms of pvp dps because of how AV/Imm/Res works. 

Necros have no chance whatsoever to kill someone unless that someone is a total moron. 

Recall prevents death.

Death markers - I think the most significant impediment to PVP is the death indicator and death count. People don't want 200+ deaths on their description.

The only things I really agree with are stun/warcry and necros not being able to kill anything due to recall.

Spellcasters are far better than melee at pvp, because of stun/curse. You even said stun is the key to pvp.... thus sorc/hara wins.  Just stun/poison and stun to death...A warrior would need a ton of SS gear to kill someone, temps are terrible solo, whereas a sorc/hara can stun/curse anything, without SS gear.

With average gear (1-2 SS and a gpot), sorc is easily the best class at pvp.

Who cares about death markers...

Would you like stun to have a 5% diminish duration?

First of all, death markers is a real thing. Everyone cares, it isn't because you don't that the rest of the players don't. I had the largest clan of pvpers back when it was released and people would complain about having deaths recorded every single time. Some players care about how their desc. looks.

Spellcasters are weak and you seem to focus only on the stun/poison/stun combo. Problem is that this isn't as viable in group pvp. Anything with immunity will break free eventually if you do that. You can potentially hold 2 players perma stunned. What a bout the rest? On top of the fact that poison on a char with immunity and 999 hp will do negligible damage.

My point is that the 2 offensive spells casters have are so negatively impacted by imm/av/res/etc. that they cannot be used.

You are talking about group pvp here not single pvp so think group.

That being said right now the strongest class in the game remains that Seyan. It can stun past cap with SS gear and will utterly wreck anyone with that sword especially if its the champion version.

All in all, there is no balance to this game and that is the major issue. If you reduce stun, it will make it impossible for non-imm classes to win. And overall, it will make it impossible for anyone to win if their opponent can recall.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Sun May 29, 2016 8:05 am

I wasn't necessarily only focusing on group pvp.

I just said clan pvp in general.

Seyan does well because of stealth and high perception... it certainly isn't because their stun is so strong.

Perhaps we need to raise other classes' perception so they're on par, or at least somewhat close.

60 percep/stealth max vs 90 is a big difference.
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Sun May 29, 2016 4:06 pm

Ya it is actually and with how easy stealth is to get, seyans can easily hit upwards of 250. The major issue really lies in how the game mechanics work. The only counter against anything damaging you is stun. C1/C2 has very little effect in terms of stopping power when someone is on dpot and maxed.

Anyway, as long as the current mechanics are in play, I don't think pvp will be popular.

The first thing you should do though is remove the death tags and counts.
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Thrice



Posts : 212
Join date : 2010-02-07

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Sun May 29, 2016 11:34 pm

Asmodeus you could not be more off the mark with your comments. For once I tend to agree with Motoko's logic because he clearly has more pvp experience than you based off your ramblings.

With the exception of a necro, all remaining races are quite evening balanced.
Here's how each race wins or puts up a strong contest:

Sorc - Attack from the distance using stealth/stun/poison.Your sword is weak and will only come in handy against a warrior. If your good at pvp as a sorc your probably terrible at penting so its a sacrifice that has to be made. you give up being good at the game to be good at pvp'ing. Makes sense to me. Still beatable with all over races. Most difficult being low rank AH but explained below.

AT - Tank your AV/immunity and use stun scrolls. The only way a stunner will win is if they have really high mana and stun/poison/blast. Even then, throw in a random warcry when walking to try and hit them before they see you. WC works outside of stealth range.

AH - Believe it or not an AH has base 1 stealth which is moded. An AH with its increased Will/int/Brave and a strong bless will actually give it considerable stealth. With the new caps in place it makes it more achievable to reach the max stealth because im pretty sure stealth maxes at about 220 and anything above that is irrelevant. So a high ranked AH is actually almost as stealthy as a sorc. Take my word that this is true.

Warrior - ss set your stun and you fight as you would a sorc only you hit your opponent face to face between stuns/curses.

Sayen - Same as warrior, better to tank your fighting skills and use stun scrolls.

Necro - Give up.

Basically any race is capable of beating any other if smart enough to do so. If you gave me a Col in any race i could beat another Col of any race. I just need to raise and prep accordingly.

I got a Major Sayen that has 1v1 9/10 nobles. I think motoko was actually the only one to beat me. Raised and preped properly anyone can establish an advantage against there opponent.

You can make agil pots in the game. Activated they give u about 20 extra stun for the duration of 5 seconds. Thats good enough for when you walk out to face a waiting opponent. Same with strengh pots and increased resistance. Use skua scrolls, use Dpots, activate your rings. There is heaps of ways to get an advantage over someone else. Not everyone can afford to do this every time so even if you lose you can get them back some times.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 4:21 am

thrice do you care about death tags? In all honesty I never even gave it a thought.

Also necro is pretty strong in group pvp, decent spells and nearly impossible to kill.

blind helps as well, but yes I agree in solo they cant do much, at least at high ranks.

at lower ranks (Major or so) ish stun is enough to kill 90% of people
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Lordlava



Posts : 3955
Join date : 2009-08-23
Location : The Land Down Under

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 5:54 am

How does a /showdeath command sound?

It would turn on/off your deaths count when people look at you or on the web cgi.

Then each player can make a choice.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 6:04 am

Lordlava wrote:
How does a /showdeath command sound?

It would turn on/off your deaths count when people look at you or on the web cgi.

Then each player can make a choice.

I think that's fine.

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Thrice



Posts : 212
Join date : 2010-02-07

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 7:16 am

I quite like the death count because it shows the quality of the person fighting. Doesn't bother me if i get a death or not. Obviously I like to keep it low for credability but im not fazed if i die. More importantly is the ratio. So if it says Thrice died 100 times but Thrice killed 500 times then im happy.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 8:03 am

Thrice wrote:
I quite like the death count because it shows the quality of the person fighting. Doesn't bother me if i get a death or not. Obviously I like to keep it low for credability but im not fazed if i die. More importantly is the ratio. So if it says Thrice died 100 times but Thrice killed 500 times then im happy.

What if we did this:

Kills/deaths are only visible to the individual person and on the /clwho list for individual clans?

Other than that, people can't see other people's kills/deaths ratio.



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Ketchup



Posts : 55
Join date : 2010-02-14
Age : 27
Location : CANADA

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 2:02 pm

Voted Yes. Why not? That might give players the incentive they need to come out of hiding and do pvp ; p as to the death counters if its such a big deal why not make clan deaths/kills viewable on the /clwho and remove it from desc? That way everyone should be happy
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 3:24 pm

Ketchup wrote:
Voted Yes. Why not? That might give players the incentive they need to come out of hiding and do pvp  ; p as to the death counters if its such a big deal why not make clan deaths/kills viewable on the /clwho and remove it from desc? That way everyone should be happy

Although I prefer mustard, I must agree with the ketchup.

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Labfiveonly



Posts : 84
Join date : 2015-03-23

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 3:47 pm

Do kills reward points?

Like, is there a point system for killing?

Also,if I killed Motoko (<3) will I get rewarded extra points for killing a blue color player? Perhaps killing staff/imps = more points than regular players >Very Happy

Perhaps turn it into a currency?

And perhaps the currency can be traded into items, specially for PVP/PVE?

For example Armor pieces (Maybe there are new designs coming on the way! MAYBE!) that already come with good stats (As in PVP would come with stealth/perc etc.. PVE would obviously come with PVE related skills).

That will encourage people to kill moar and gank everyone they can, so they can have l337 4rm0rz !ermagerd!


Well this is just throwing Ideas, I am not sure if anyone has already pitched in something like this, if they have, I are very sorry. I is for sure very very sorry.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 4:58 pm

Labfiveonly wrote:
Do kills reward points?

Like, is there a point system for killing?

Also,if I killed Motoko (<3) will I get rewarded extra points for killing a blue color player? Perhaps killing staff/imps = more points than regular players >Very Happy

Perhaps turn it into a currency?

And perhaps the currency can be traded into items, specially for PVP/PVE?

For example Armor pieces (Maybe there are new designs coming on the way! MAYBE!) that already come with good stats (As in PVP would come with stealth/perc etc.. PVE would obviously come with PVE related skills).

That will encourage people to kill moar and gank everyone they can, so they can have l337 4rm0rz !ermagerd!



Well this is just throwing Ideas, I am not sure if anyone has already pitched in something like this, if they have, I are very sorry. I is for sure very very sorry.

right on point.


Good ideas.

Plat is the currency but it's limited in terms of what it can do.

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Offended



Posts : 28
Join date : 2016-02-29

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Mon May 30, 2016 6:53 pm

I feel there needs to be more of a mutual clan prize for clan PVP rather than an individual prize since a clan is essentially a "team". If you want to run solo, go purple.

My thought, give plat more actual value? Maybe more items you can put in CH? Portals? Chests? Or maybe an item you can buy, place in your CH, and every X# of kills your clan gets everybody in the clan gets that reward? Let it be drugs or whatever? Possibilities are endless there I think, there just needs to be more of an incentive to "need" platinum.


I still think there should be some sort of "clan spawner rooms" for platinum as well with rank caps on each room.
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Labfiveonly



Posts : 84
Join date : 2015-03-23

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Tue May 31, 2016 12:37 am

Hasn't plat been there for a long time? Make a new PointName system just for kills, plat should be used only for construction.

That way who ever has hoards of plat, will still have hoards of plat.

Everyone starts fair and square at ground 0.

Have different sets for different classes. Both pve and pvp.
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:53 pm

Pvp is very situational and what I talked about is generally toward late game. Pvp is much more interesting at lower ranks simply because you need to spec into a pvp build as opposed to having everything maxed out. 

What I will say is that I hope there are no rewards that are based on kills as I can guarantee some form of abuse will happen. It happened when clans released and I can assure you that every old clan has been involved. I don't think a repeat should happen.

All in all, the game pvp ends up being based on stealth/stun/warcry mechanics. Necros don't have stun which makes them utter garbage 1vs1 and nearly useless in high end pvp since they cant c2/blind max res without significant effort. I would just like to have more versatility if possible.
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Thrice



Posts : 212
Join date : 2010-02-07

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:19 pm

I wouldn't stress about any chance of exploitation occurring. If there is I will find out and most likely exploit it, resulting in it being rectified within a week or two.

I'm pretty sure that's how admin goes about any new change.

1.) Release to the public
2.) Follow Thrice round
3.) catch Thrice exploiting the new change
4.) Ban Thrice for 12 month period
5.) rectify any exploitation that Thrice managed to discover.


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Lordlava



Posts : 3955
Join date : 2009-08-23
Location : The Land Down Under

PostSubject: Re: Would you CLAN pvp if the rewards were good? (drugs, new gear)   Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:10 am

LOL

I think we have been sprung.
Need new tactics now.
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