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 AT vs Seyan vs Warrior

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elsoqo



Posts : 9
Join date : 2015-03-09

PostSubject: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:25 pm

Hey guys,

I have had limited experience with later on in the game, but was wondering who you'd think would be the best as far as being able to soak up as much damage/badness as possible between these 3, while still balancing their own offensive spells/abilities.

I'm not sure about AT's, since their spells have such a low base (and penalty on top of it?) so I don't think they'd make the cut, but my opinion is really flawed on that for several reasons.  I guess the best way to ask this is, as a speller, which of these races would you hate going up against 1v1 the most?  I'm curious to see what more experienced peoples think.

With love,

Slaizer
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Kane



Posts : 65
Join date : 2010-03-05

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:34 pm

Warriors are only good on their own with soul stoned armor

Arch Templars are the most durable class in the game on their own and possibly unkillable under the spells of an AH but their clear speed is pretty low even with sh/sh2.

Seyans are pretty durable and do alot of damage late game.  Id say seyans are the best overall

During clan fights when I was on a Dpot + SS armor + MS scroll + AH spells, even when I was stunned by an AH or Sorc I was unkillable until my spells wore out. All it took was a loss of focus on their part so I would have enough time to Warcry and stun everyone and that was it. You cant really spam WC but thats what rep pots are for.
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Urdadi

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Posts : 294
Join date : 2009-09-09
Location : yomama's

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:39 pm

What is your end-game goal? to dominate pvp? to pent fast and gather drugs fast? Our answers will be better if we know what you are trying to do.

The seyan is my favorite for penting, farming materials or just exploring new areas. Seyans are kinda the Jack-of-all-trades around here. They do a little bit of everything, and do it well.

The AT is the easy way to pvp dominance; max immune and warcry and you will have bluecapes running scared.

Don't count out the Warrior tho, they can really shine with specialized gear. They can stun harder than AH or they can go for more immunity than the AT. A late-game Warrior can be full of surprises because you never know what skill is sitting at 255. It is difficult for the Warrior to be well-rounded but they can be game-breaking in any one or two skills.
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elsoqo



Posts : 9
Join date : 2015-03-09

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:05 pm

My goal, I guess, is to be universally rounded. Such that if there is an LQ/Arena Lotto/Pvp event/etc (if those can still happen) I can do well, while also being able to solo effectively if I need to pent or do other higher level areas. One of the reasons I'm doing these 3 classes in particular is because of the immunity skill.. with high enough immunity nothing is too life-threatening, other than possibly stepping on some terrible trap. I was going to use the comments here to make a decision on which to go.

Keyword is solo, I'm assuming I'll be relying on only myself. For instance, I know AT's are gods on AH's spells (moreso than anyone else) but I'm considering each race's own merits. I'm also not too interested in clear speed (so long as I'm able to clear).

I can't help but feel like I'm basically describing a Seyan XD but thanks for the comments so far.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:09 pm

elsoqo wrote:
My goal, I guess, is to be universally rounded.  Such that if there is an LQ/Arena Lotto/Pvp event/etc (if those can still happen) I can do well, while also being able to solo effectively if I need to pent or do other higher level areas.  One of the reasons I'm doing these 3 classes in particular is because of the immunity skill.. with high enough immunity nothing is too life-threatening, other than possibly stepping on some terrible trap.  I was going to use the comments here to make a decision on which to go.

Keyword is solo, I'm assuming I'll be relying on only myself.  For instance, I know AT's are gods on AH's spells (moreso than anyone else) but I'm considering each race's own merits.  I'm also not too interested in clear speed (so long as I'm able to clear).

I can't help but feel like I'm basically describing a Seyan XD but thanks for the comments so far.

Warrior, seyan is garbage, and AT is only good on someone elses' spells.

/Thread

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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:19 pm

With the proper set up (ss gear + drugs) Warriors are top notch... They have an excellent spell bonus, can stun past 255 res (which means they can kill anything) and have decent pent speed. While I prefer seyan for the balance, their spell bonus and the cost of skills is crap. Seyans will never shine as much as AT or Warriors.

In the end, all 3 are good choices but your play style will define what you pick. AT is wonderful with spells but meh without. The only advantage is that with staff you can now realistically regenerate mana enough to perma Tea and biscuits spell yourself.

In the end go with what you like.

My tier list would be Warr/AT/seyan
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Urdadi

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PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:42 am

elsoqo wrote:
My goal, I guess, is to be universally rounded.

AT is the opposite of universally rounded. It's a very specialized tank that excels at pvp but nowhere else in-game do we really need that kind of tankiness. With your goals in mind, I'd drop AT from the candidates. It's crazy boring to level those things anyway.


When deciding between Seyan and Warrior your biggest concern will be the spell bonus and penalty. Seyan has -5% penalty and Warrior has +10 bonus. They play into just about every calculation, not just the spell power but also into immunity and resistance. That's a pretty big gap when you're talking 255 mod spells and skills: The Warrior's bringing 280 power numbers to the table while all the seyan stuff maxes at 242. But the tradeoff is that the seyan has a much much easier time of reaching that 242 number and with one soulstoned outfit he can have 4 or 5 lvl 242 spells/skills in his pocket. A warrior could probably build one suit that gave him 255 sword, immune and rez but if he wants 280 power bless, c2, stun or any of his other 60 base skills, he will have to dedicate large chunks of his kit to that single skill. So your choice for endgame redcape really comes down to one guy who carries around 4 or 5 attributes at 242 or another who at any one time has 1 to 3 attributes at 280. I've got em both, and I consider them equally awesome. They are almost perfectly balanced. If I had to chose just one, I'd chose the seyan because dispell is sick, and stun/blast/stun is useful at times, and it's nice to have a lil ghost friend to open doors for you and show you where the traps are.

Edit: But then again Warriors are more fun in pvp, and there is nothing more infuriating to Warlord AH's than a lil warrior that can outbless them... this is a tough question hahaha
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lurker



Posts : 139
Join date : 2013-03-11

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:56 pm

Urdadi wrote:

Don't count out the Warrior tho, they can really shine with specialized gear. They can stun harder than AH or they can go for more immunity than the AT. .

Why do you say a warrior can get more Immunity than an AT? Immunity isn't spell bonused, plus AT gets harden which boosts Immunity on it's own.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:09 pm

lurker wrote:
Urdadi wrote:

Don't count out the Warrior tho, they can really shine with specialized gear. They can stun harder than AH or they can go for more immunity than the AT. .

Why do you say a warrior can get more Immunity than an AT? Immunity isn't spell bonused, plus AT gets harden which boosts Immunity on it's own.

They both easily get 255...

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Urdadi

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PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:37 pm

lurker wrote:


Why do you say a warrior can get more Immunity than an AT? Immunity isn't spell bonused, plus AT gets harden which boosts Immunity on it's own.

I haven't tested in a long time, but I believe the class bonus/penalty DOES effect immunity, meaning Warriors with 255 mod really have 280 while AT's and Seyans with 255 mod actually have 242. The game doesn't spell it out for you in ID like it does with bless, curse, etc but the effect can be observed. I remember doing some resistance tests with Ayumi or Wind and we were trying to take immunity out of the equation by always having the exact same immunity mods, but the warriors always needed less resistance vs the same stun mod. We attributed that to spell bonus but I'm not sure if the bonus is applied to resistance, immunity, or both. Maybe something else was at play, but the AT & Seyan numbers matched up, and the Warriors seemingly had different rules. We both left the arena fairly certain that the spell bonus is not just for spells and both of our Warriors shot up in rank the following week.

Can someone just look at the code and let us know? I can't read it lol.
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lurker



Posts : 139
Join date : 2013-03-11

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:18 am

I'll check again but I didn't think it was there, I could be wrong though. Even so with harden an AT would still get way more.
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:32 am

Spell bonus affects only casted spells not resistance or immunity.

Edit: includes scrolls as well.
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lurker



Posts : 139
Join date : 2013-03-11

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:43 am

Yup, just checked to verify. Immunity has to bearing on spell mod, unless aranock has changed it.

One thing to note however, when casting a negative spell, immunity takes affect before spell mod.

So say 100 power immunity and 100 power curse cast by a warrior, would end up affecting the target as 55 instead of 60(if spell mod happened first).
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Urdadi

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PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:21 pm

Ok, I stand corrected. Can you expand abit on this scenario?

lurker wrote:

So say 100 power immunity and 100 power curse cast by a warrior, would end up affecting the target as 55 instead of 60(if spell mod happened first).


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lurker



Posts : 139
Join date : 2013-03-11

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:40 pm

Player A casts curse on player B

Player A has 100 mod curse and is warrior.
Player B has 100 mod immunity.

It goes power= mod curse(100)

Power = power-immunity(mod/2)

Power = 50 now

Now you add or subtract spell bonus

Power=power*mod

So 55. If mod applied before immunity ending power would be 60.
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MarshMallowMan



Posts : 31
Join date : 2015-03-16
Age : 32
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:04 am

iam kind of confused as to why you guys are saying a warrior can get so high skills with soulstones but a seyan cant, can someone explain that for me? why cant a seyan use soulstones as well?
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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:07 am

MarshMallowMan wrote:
iam kind of confused as to why you guys are saying a warrior can get so high skills with soulstones but a seyan cant, can someone explain that for me? why cant a seyan use soulstones as well?

Seyans have a 5% spell penalty while warriors have a 10% bonus. That is a 15% gap in resulting spell power.
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lurker



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PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:10 am

Kind of, percentages don't quite work that way though.

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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:26 am

lurker wrote:
Kind of, percentages don't quite work that way though.


oh really?
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lurker



Posts : 139
Join date : 2013-03-11

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:54 am

Start 100

.95(seyan) makes it power 95
1.1( warrior) makes it 110

110 is 86.36% more than 95.

95 is 15.8% less than 110.

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Asmodeus



Posts : 483
Join date : 2012-12-22

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:53 am

lurker wrote:
Start 100

.95(seyan) makes it power 95
1.1( warrior) makes it 110

110 is 86.36% more than 95.

95 is 15.8% less than 110.


You really wasted all that time to correct this? Sure... There is a 15 point gap in spell power bonus.
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MarshMallowMan



Posts : 31
Join date : 2015-03-16
Age : 32
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:37 pm

Can someone please list all the race bonus's? and what skills are unique to each race?

I think this kind of stuff should be posted to the game information page. its not very friendly to noobs to keep this information only in the hands of veteran players.
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Motoko



Posts : 1229
Join date : 2009-09-14

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:56 pm

MarshMallowMan wrote:
Can someone please list all the race bonus's? and what skills are unique to each race?

I think this kind of stuff should be posted to the game information page. its not very friendly to noobs to keep this information only in the hands of veteran players.

ARCHHARAKIM mod=1.05;
ARCHTEMPLAR mod=0.95;
SORCERER mod=1.10;
WARRIOR mod=1.10;
SEYAN_DU mod=0.95;
HARAKIM mod=1.00;
MERCENARY mod=1.05;
TEMPLAR mod=0.90;

If you need help please just message me in game.

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MarshMallowMan



Posts : 31
Join date : 2015-03-16
Age : 32
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:11 pm

Quote :
Seyan has -5% penalty and Warrior has +10 bonus. They play into just about every calculation, not just the spell power but also into immunity and resistance.

Does this mean a warrior also can go above 255 resistance?
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lurker



Posts : 139
Join date : 2013-03-11

PostSubject: Re: AT vs Seyan vs Warrior   Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:22 pm

No only cast spells take spell bonus into affect. Bless, protection, enhance weapon, light, heal, identify, curse(2), stun, blast(2), GC, MS, not sure about blind, poison, and harden, but war cry does not.
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